Comments on: Iran Outs Harry Potter as a Member of the World Zionist Conspiracy

By: Kristin

Kristin — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 00:11:16 +0000

And, I mean, who thinks that all religious people literally believe every word included in their religious texts?

By: Kristin

Kristin — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 00:05:50 +0000

Well, to me, it did sound like she was trying to explain the “reasonableness” of the video. I dunno… If she were one of my students, I’d have more patience.

chingona: Yeah, I’ve heard people use a few passages from the Qur’an to argue that Muslims are inherently violent as well. Ugh…

By: chingona

chingona — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 00:00:06 +0000

I’ve fielded questions like that as part of more wide-ranging discussions about religion with people I know in real life and not had the emotional reaction I had to what Dianne wrote. I think it was that she wrote it in response to your critique of the racial superiority aspect of the video that got my hackles up.

As an aside, I suspect that the Jewish experience in the Diaspora has strongly influenced what I think is the dominant view of “chosen-ness.” Certainly the religious part of the settler movement and the Greater Israel types basically take it for granted that the Jewish people are chosen in the sense of favored and superior. But I think a lot of Jews (most Jews?) look at that phrase “Chosen People” in the light of all the tragedies that have befallen us as a people and can’t help but think it might have been better not to be chosen. (I prefer the midrash in which God is holding the mountain over the Israelites myself.)

By: chingona

chingona — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:39:19 +0000

And like I said, that’s why I responded the way I did. Do you think I bit her head off? I tried not to.

By: chingona

chingona — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:20:06 +0000

I guess–especially because of her footnotes–I read the question as one of honest ignorance.

That’s why I responded the way that I did. The reason I found it upsetting, nonetheless, is the next logical step is that the Jews bring antisemitism upon themselves with their beliefs (as I said in the comment I was writing to Kristin before I saw your last comment).

I also have to say that it is possible, given–for example–the story of God’s command to exterminate the nation of Amalek, even down to their farm animals, as well as some of the other things that the Jews/Israelites do in the Torah, for someone whose selective reading is not malicious, but just partial because it is partial and without a complete context, to conclude that there is within the tradition of Jewish thinking a strand of the kind of racial supremacy that we usually associate, say, with white supremacists.

That stuff is in there. You can find a lot of nasty stuff in most religious texts. I don’t have a lot of patience with Americans who hold up one or two excerpts from the Quran that they saw quoted somewhere as evidence that Islam is inherently violent. My offense isn’t reserved for ignorant comments directed at my group.

By: chingona

chingona — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:10:33 +0000

It is a pretty good illustration, though, of why it can be so hard to have a rational conversation about a question like “Is Zionism racist?” Is this person someone who understands the price that Jews have paid for living in the minority but believes ultimately Zionism wasn’t the right response, or is this person someone who believes the mere existence of the phrase “Chosen People” is evidence of Jews’ belief in their own racial superiority (which in turn implies that Jews bring antisemitism upon themselves with their beliefs and actions)?

By: Richard Jeffrey Newman

Richard Jeffrey Newman — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:05:19 +0000

Let me second chingona’s thanks here, Kristin, though I have to say I did not find Dianne’s comment as troubling as you and chingona did. Maybe I am just used to it, but I do see how someone who does not know what “chosenness” means within a Jewish context could read it as signifying a kind of superiority, especially given that other rhetorics of chosenness do in fact signify the kind of superiority Dianne was alluding to. I guess–especially because of her footnotes–I read the question as one of honest ignorance. I also have to say that it is possible, given–for example–the story of God’s command to exterminate the nation of Amalek, even down to their farm animals, as well as some of the other things that the Jews/Israelites do in the Torah, for someone whose selective reading is not malicious, but just partial because it is partial and without a complete context, to conclude that there is within the tradition of Jewish thinking a strand of the kind of racial supremacy that we usually associate, say, with white supremacists.

By: Kristin

Kristin — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:47:57 +0000

chingona: Heh, yeah, that was a pretty ridiculous comment. Anyway, I thought your response was pretty remarkably restrained.

Richard: I’ll look into the books.

By: Richard Jeffrey Newman

Richard Jeffrey Newman — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:39:50 +0000

Kristin: A guy to read who I find really interesting on antisemitism in medieval Europe is Sander Gilman. Two books: Jewish Self-Hatred and The Jews’ Body. There are others, but I can’t think of the titles or authors off the top of my head.

By: chingona

chingona — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:35:48 +0000

Kristin, thanks for coming out strong on Alas. I found Dianne’s comment pretty upsetting, but I felt like I had to take about 10 deep breaths and deal with it in good faith lest I come off as … an overemotional Jew.